AI Is Fast. Trust Is Slow - Human-First AI Marketing and The Impact AI has had on Business

OPENING - EPISODE 22 PAUL WRIGHT Hello, everyone, and welcome to this edition of the Link Thru Social Podcast. My name is Paul Wright, and we want to thank you off the top of the show here for all the support you've been giving us, following us on social media, liking our posts, sharing our posts, and then, of course, subscribing to our YouTube channel, watching our shows, and also listening and downloading on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts. So we really appreciate it. And if you need the links for the Link Thru Social Podcasts, go to LinkThruSocialPodcast.com. Now, for today's show, we have two amazing guests. First will be Mike Montague from Avenue9 Marketing. His website is avenue9.com, and he's going to be talking about how AI is fast, trust is slow. Human first AI marketing. And then our second guest will be Ralph Gehrig from the Creative Technology Agency Long Duty. His website is longduty.com. That's W-O-N-G-D-O-O-D-Y.com. And he'll be talking to us about the impact AI has had on business. We'll get to both those interviews on the Link Thru Social Podcast right after this brief message. SPONSOR MESSAGE - SMART POST APP SPONSOR MESSAGE Tired of stressing over what to post on social media? Meet Smart Post App, your all-in-one solution to create, schedule, and grow your content effortlessly. In just a few taps, you can generate engaging posts, stay consistent, and keep your audience coming back for more. No more guessing, no more burnout, just smarter content faster. Whether you're a business owner, creator, or an entrepreneur, Smart Post App offers both premium and pro plans. In addition, we have new features that have been recently added that include instantly viewing public links to your posts on any network, weekly view allowing you to plan hour by hour, account group, group your accounts to save time and simplify your workflow. And a desktop version, which offers a simpler way to stay consistent. Start posting smarter today at SmartPostApp.com. Smart Post App because your content should work for you. INTERVIEW 1 - MIKE MONTAGUE / AVENUE9 PAUL WRIGHT & MIKE MONTAGUE And welcome back to the Link Thru Social Podcast. Well, we have a wonderful guest for us today, Mike Montague from Avenue9.com. Mike is a leading voice in human-first AI marketing. His company, Avenue9, is an AI-powered marketing agency helping small businesses scale without burning bridges or blowing out their budget. Mike has worked with giant brands like LinkedIn, Uber, Zoom, Bud Light, and the Kansas City Chiefs. He's authored two books, LinkedIn, The Sandler Way, and Playful Humans. And his podcasts have over a thousand episodes and over 4 million downloads. Very impressive. Now he uses his decades of past marketing experience and the AI tools of the future to help businesses amplify their impact. Mike, welcome to the Link Thru Social podcast. So good to be here. I'm excited for this one. Social goes all the way back in my early career there with the LinkedIn stuff. So I'm excited to chat. Okay. So before we get into the interview, maybe you can just give us a little bit about your background and how you arrived here today. Yeah, it is a winding tale, so I try not to make it long. But I in my early career, I started designing websites before it was cool. You know, this is when you had to do it by hand and code and stuff, but I didn't want to be nerd and stuck behind a computer all day. I wanted to be cool and be on the radio, so I was Romeo on the top 40 radio station in Kansas City. You have a radio plugs, that's for sure. Got involved with the Chiefs and everything. And I actually designed the websites for the radio stations and helped the Chiefs broadcast online for the first time. And because I was on the air, I had a large social media following, mostly on my MySpace, unfortunately. So I had to transition into my career. But as I grew up and really got into it, LinkedIn became my platform. I wrote a book for them, and the rest is kind of history. All of it swirls together in marketing and sales and technology and whatever kind of combination that ends up on each day is what I do. Now you've trademarked the phrase human-first AI marketing. What does human first AI mean to you? Well, three things in that one. One I think is human first to me means the human has to do the work first. There's this weird thing with AI right now where it kind of gets like a C plus grade in everything, but not an A plus in very many things, maybe coding or something else. But really, it can't even do that by itself. The human has to prompt it, the human has to start it and do the strategy part first. so that's an important part. The other one is to put your customers first. A lot of people are thinking, oh, I can save 10, 20 hours a week by automating my you know business, but do your customers want that? Like, are you causing them 10 hours extra because they have to do the work that you didn't? and so I think that's another challenge for people. And then third, you know, most importantly for me, I think is like putting employees first. I'm really a big fan of what I call the Iron Man approach. have you heard of Iron Man versus Terminator? Yes, I have. Yes, I have. Yeah. So like I want to wrap the employees in technology and the suit and give them AI in their ear, giving them information they didn't have, and turn them into the superhero versus like just automating everything, creating these you know, employee robots that nobody cares about and nobody really wants, I don't think, on any side. So those are the kind of three big things that I try to do with my business. Wonderful. Now, what do you think most businesses are missing about how AI is changing the search behavior? Oh man, it's massive. I don't think people quite understand how big it is, but I've seen a lot of different reports of industries of 50 to 80 percent traffic drop and sales drops on online because of how much search has changed, specifically the people that were information brokers. So Tim Ferris, the guy who wrote the four-hour work week, published his numbers. Since ChatGPT came out, his sales have dropped 83 percent of his book because basically everybody can ask ChatGPT for the answer now, and it just stole his book for free, and nobody needs to go to his website, listen to his podcast, or buy his book anymore because it's all kind of publicly available for free. That's huge. Now that might not be your business, but think about what it means when people are getting answers without having to go to your website. It really changes the buyer's journey a lot. And some local businesses are fine, you know. If you're still looking for a plumber in your local town, then you know that search is probably going to be local and come up with the same kind of list. But yes, SEO had rankings, you know, the 10 blue links and paid ads in there. ChatGPT has no rankings, it gives you one recommendation sometimes unless you ask for more. And so it can be a very short list of the haves and have nots. Now, your company is Avenue Nine, and it's an AI-powered marketing. my passion is social media, social media management. What do you think? what advice are your are you giving to your clients and as you're working with them on marketing plans, as far as social media is concerned, about using AI tools? you know, I the biggest complaint I've heard lately is all the AI generated posters look the same. And like how can you have your clients set themselves apart, still using the AI tools, but not having that same AI poster look, if you know what I'm saying? Oh man, I got a lot of thoughts here. number one is a lot of people are posting on social media, not a lot of people are reading or listening on social media. So, probably the number one tip I could give you is use AI to go listen and look for clues and like search, you know, whatever platform your clients are on and look for things of like I think we used, you know, Plumber in Mississauga, like somebody that posted about their flooded basement or their clogged toilet or something, and go find those people and then reach out to them. I think number two is there's a lot of contact mapping you can do. So I work mostly in B2B. In that space, we need to go find out who the decision makers are. We can find out who all around the company, their contact information. There's a lot of like AI intent data out there that's a big change from what other people have been doing up to this point. third thing I would say, you know, about the posting is and this is some of what I do with Avenue Nine, is I call it degenerative engineering. So instead of like trying to take a weak idea and like have AI create that standard, you know, social media post for you, what if you went the other way? What if you took your sales meeting or your call with your client and then you said, Hey, AI, analyze this transcript of the hour meeting I had with my best client and come up with a cool social media post for me. Now it's working from real data, real conversations, and it knows what your voice sounds like and how you pitch stuff. So that's what I do with this podcast that we're on right now. I'm gonna take this transcript and say, hey, what did I say was good? How could I take this conversation with Link Thru Social and create something interesting out of it? I think real human conversations and real experiences, maybe it's your ticket board or your customer service desk or anything. There's really great questions and content in there now that was previously very hard to mine and use on social media. It took a lot of manpower, but now it's easy. Go comb through all those thousand tickets and find the one that's you know most common. Now, no, great, great points. Now, you've you've written a book about LinkedIn. Is LinkedIn still relevant in 2026? Man, it's a great question. I wrote that book 15 years ago. So I was careful to make sure the strategies are evergreen. So it's still a lot of what we're talking about here of like how do you reach out to individual people and start conversations about that. I have recently this year become more and more disillusioned with LinkedIn. It seems to be coming turning into like a TikTok platform with like a lot of video first content and not video first from my connections and stuff. So I still think it is. I think for me the two platforms are YouTube and LinkedIn. YouTube does really well with targeting, and I seem to get views, and it helps with AEO and SEO and other platforms. Same thing with LinkedIn. I publish articles there because that is publicly available information that AI can scrape and get into their knowledge bases. And then I would I don't know what your thoughts are. I'd love to hear your answer too here, because I think the feed for me is mostly irrelevant. I post weekly and have my podcast, but I'm more working the connections and back channels and events and like trying to really network and not worry about kind of broadcasting my posts. You hit it on the nail. The feed is to me is dead. It's just you know, you can you can post things on there, but they're they're not being seen. You're exactly right. It's about making the connections, and then you make the connection, you and then you transfer it over to possibly other social media platforms to connect and to post things, but as far as the feed on LinkedIn, yeah, I don't I don't think it's very good anymore. Sure, of course I agree with you, and I want to add one other thing, which is I think the paid ads, it is an advertising platform which can still be viable. LinkedIn is the most expensive of all the platforms, but I do think if like if organic traffic is gone and your website's gone and nobody's filling out your forms anymore or setting appointments and the phone's not ringing, you gotta do something to reach out to strangers. And so I do boost posts, I do place ads and promote events or webinars that I'm doing there, and it does still seem to get responses. And so I think a lot of people, when they think social, think, oh, there's this free, massive, like you know, broadcast platform somewhere. And I don't think those exist on any of the channels anymore. They definitely do not, but no, amazing point. you and your clients have had many viral moments with millions of views. What's the one thing most people get wrong about going viral? Well, usually you're not prepared. So one of the biggest ones that happened, I was working with a music artist in like around 20 2007, and he posted a new video that went viral. It got 14 million views in the first two weeks, but it was only like his third video. The channel wasn't monetized or anything. He got no money from the millions of views. The song wasn't available to purchase. He was he recorded it in his home with a home video camera and stuff on this video, which is why it went viral in the first place, which I think is another lesson. It's like the stuff that goes viral isn't like the ad for your business, because nobody wants to watch that and share it with anybody. So the stuff that goes viral isn't really something that creates conversions a lot of the time. The other thing is I have lots of people that have just well-timed stuff, or I've worked with artists that have been on the tonight show and things like that, and you think, oh, this is my big break. But the thing is, it's like if it's kind of like TikTok, where if it comes fast, it goes fast. And like just because people liked that one joke or that one-minute clip doesn't necessarily mean they want to become a lifetime client of yours, and building trust takes a long time, and so virality doesn't really help, it can help amplify luck a little bit, but unless you're really polished in business and prepared and you have offers and you know how to capitalize on that traffic, it really doesn't help too much. It's fun, it's exciting for sure. Of course, yeah, it's it's great to brag. Oh, I had you know two million views on my last video. But if you're not prepared, if you don't have things set up on all your social platforms to show your brand, it boggles my mind. I'm a huge fan of Shark Tank in the US, and we have a similar type of program here, Dragons Den. And some of these potential pitchers, I guess, they'll go on the show, they'll they know when the show's gonna air, it's usually months later. And I'm a social media guy, so I immediately go to their social media when I'm watching a pitch that I'm interested in, and some of them don't even have any information. Like, what are you doing? This is your chance. You've had time to prepare. It's not like a viral video that just by accident went viral. This is something that you have months to prepare for, and they're they're only gonna look at your brand once and move on to the next thing. That's the type of society we live in. It's just that minute, and then they're on to the next thing. So it's I totally agree. And I think businesses miss that like that's the same thing that happens when your prospects are looking too, though. It's like they're gonna go to your social or your website and stuff, and you get like seven seconds to capture their attention, look trustworthy, and give them what they're looking for. Otherwise, it's on to the next thing. We're in a global market now. It's it feels like a lot of pressure, but you can also build trust over time and you know find relationships and connections over time that are different. But for strangers, that's really the game you're playing. Absolutely, mate. Well, I wish we had some more time, but we have to go. But I want to mention again that your website is avenue9, the number nine.com. just give us a little overview of what they're gonna find when they go to your website and about the Avenue Nine Marketing Agency. Yeah, and since we're talking about social media, it's Avenue9ai on LinkedIn or YouTube or my channels. You can find Mike D. Monteview on most channels too. But LinkedIn is where I hang out and YouTube. Avenue Nine is really about three things either figuring out your strategy. Some people know AI, some people don't know marketing, not a whole lot, no bulf and stuff. So I work on across all of those things to help you figure out the strategy. Then we talk about technology and systems, what cool new tools are out there that'll help you. And then, like we talked about today, creating awesome content. If you want to start a podcast, make a course, you know, fill out that marketing calendar and have all the blogs and social media posts you want. that's another part that we can help with by working this the correct way. But it usually starts with those first conversations. And I really appreciate the time and the conversation today. It was fun. Oh, it was great having you, Mike, and love to have you on the show again in the future. Things are moving so fast, technology is evolving at the speed of light. So we'll definitely invite you back on in the months to come. And it's w9.com. Mike Montague, thank you again for joining the Link Thru Social Podcast. Thank you. We'll be back right after this brief message. LINK THRU SOCIAL - EVENT PARTNER MESSAGE LINK THRU SOCIAL Planning a sporting event, festival, concert, MMA card, wrestling show, boxing card, or nightclub event, don't just host it. Make people talk about it. At Link Thru Social, we're your official social media partner, creating the buzz before your event, capturing the excitement live, and keeping the conversation going long after it's over. From professional content creation and live coverage to reels, interviews, highlights, and audience engagement, we help turn your great events into unforgettable experiences. Visit LinkThruSocial.com and discover how Link Thru Social can help make your next event bigger, louder, and impossible to ignore. Link Thru Social, connecting your event with the people who matter most. INTERVIEW 2 - RALPH / WONGDOODY PAUL WRIGHT & RALPH And we're back on the Link Thru Social podcast, and we're pleased to have a wonderful guest here today. His name is Ralph Garrick, and he's from WongDuty.com. You can also find him on social media at WongDuty. That's D-O-O-D-Y. Ralph is a global chief experience officer at Wong Duty and spearheads a dynamic team of over 2,000 designers and creatives focused on creating human-centric digital solutions. With a wealth of experience exceeding 20 years in design, digital strategy, and technology, Ralph brings a unique perspective to solving complex digital challenges. Ralph, welcome to the show. Thank you. Wonderful to be here. Yes, so before we get started, Ralph, why don't you just give us a little bit more information about your background and how you came here today? Sure, absolutely. So yeah, you can hear I'm I'm German, but actually spent all of my professional career in London here, where I'm right now, and worked for loads of kind of big design agencies over the years and always enjoyed kind of the kind of scaled, you know, scaled impact that work can have when you work for big brands on big hairy challenges. And then 2012 co-founded with a business partner an agency here in London, where we thought we could do things a bit more agile, a bit quicker. and we called it Brilliant Basics. was kind of the you know the idea, like you know, do the basics brilliantly, and everything else will fall into place. And so it did. And then we sold it a couple of years later to Infosys, big Indian IT company. And they bought us for Europe and they bought Wong Duty for the US. From 2020 onwards, we brought all of the you know digital design teams across Wong Rudi together, and as part of that, I took a global role to lead that as chief experience officer. So we got a big team in India because Infosys, so 450 designers there, and then big teams in Europe and North America and Australia, and then we were you know kind of fortunate enough to be able to buy some more agencies to beef up the Australia operation and in Germany, and has been has been going really well. So it's a big adventure, and yeah, probably one of the few founders that you know kind of stayed you know after the earnout, and you know, like I really enjoy the you know the challenge and it's you know always changing. Yeah, you don't you don't hear that too often. So yeah, you've it's it's expanded into definitely a global based company, global reach. That's wonderful. Now Ralph, everyone is talking about AI. what is the biggest difference between simply adopting AI tools and truly becoming an AI transformed organization? Yeah, that's a big that's a big topic. And you know, we are on that journey, probably like everybody is, and you probably as well. Like, you know, every day there's a new tool, a new kind of you know, version of Claude. as we're recording this yesterday, Fable came out, the new Claude model. So, you know, so I've been playing with that this morning. So, you know, like and I think that idea of playing, I think, is actually quite important. and I encourage kind of the team, like, don't worry about the tokens for now, just you know, kind of try it out and also try it out on a personal project. Or, you know, like you just need to get into the groove of this new way of working and how to kind of you know hone your skills with all these new tools, so that you know, so that you actually can change how you do things and really encouraging not just the designers, but everybody in the company to really think about okay, what do you do every day? And do you really need to do it this way anymore? Like whether it's our finance team or the recruitment team, anyone, and kind of say, like, look, you know, I want you, I want you to embrace this. Like, that's that's that's it. And also it doesn't, I think some people felt it a bit like cheating. Like, you know, like you know, they send me a document and then sheepishly say, Well, actually, I wrote this with Claude. That's data is there for sure. Yeah, yeah, definitely, right? And I told them, like, I don't like that's great. The only thing is you're responsible for what you what you push out, like you know, it's your deliverable. You can't say, Well, Claude made a mistake here. Like, you know, you are you know, like it's a thing that you submit. Yes, whether you did AI or not, like you know, it's up to you, but you're accountable for it. Also, when we show it to a client, or you can't just say, Oh, yeah, yeah, that's you know, that's a hallucination stuff. Like, that's that's not okay. Like, that's for you to sort out. Absolutely, absolutely. Now, I was looking at your bio, and you often speak about closing the gap between productivity gains and real business transformation. Why do so many companies struggle to make that lead, Ralph? I think it's it's in kind of the large organizations that we work for, like large, you know, big corporates in all in all sectors, change is always really, really hard. because quite naturally, and I can feel it from you know coming from a startup that we founded to now being part of a big, big global company, everything slows down. and everything gets a bit more cemented in their ways. And it's it's a natural thing that in a way is just baked into the fact that it's a large amount of people that you have to bring along on a journey and that slows things down and makes things a bit more stale. So it's a constant fight against that, and it's a constant you know, anti-movement, like you know, like I just said, like encouraging people to change and adopt. And I think a big part of that is to kind of lead from the front and you know, like showing the change, you know, like I wipe coded stuff on the weekend with cloud code, and you know, showing that to the team and say, kind of, you know, like that's the kind of things that you know I want you to do. but in our client organizations, I think there's also right now, there's a lot of conversations where people are obviously fearful, they're fearful of their jobs, right? When we talk AI, two years ago when it started, people were excited. we actually did some studies also with consumers, not with kind of big companies, but with consumers. Okay, and yes, and the energy definitely shifts. so just as a like to quote from that study, because it is quite interesting, is we did a study on AI humans in marketing, so with consumers, like is it so we ran focus groups in the UK and Germany, right? With a university partner, so they ran the ran that and we asked, you know, we showed them different you know, AI humans in ads, in digital experiences, etc. And they kind of said, like, how do you feel about that, etc. And we did it twice. we did it in end of 2014, 2024, and then 2025. And the in the in the first study, people were very positive about it. And in the second one, the first thing everybody said was, ooh, that means all the models that are normally used for this, all the you know, people that do the video recording, the production team, they're all out of a job now, aren't they? Yes, so the like that fear is definitely there. And when you when you talk to organizations about okay, like you know, like we do, like you know, let's say AI in marketing or AI in design or AI in product development, like you know, cloud code and things like that, wipe coding, their mind quickly jumps to ooh, what does that mean for me in my job? And that wasn't quite the case, you know, 18 months ago. And but that kind of creates also the friction that prevents change. So it's then it's then a tricky thing to kind of you know speak to them and kind of bring them on board with the change and kind of say like you know, like this is actually in your benefit as well. Like, you know, like just because AI gets introduced doesn't mean there's you know there's immediately a job cutting. Right, right. It's it's at this point in time on this fast train that's moving the AI, it really it really has to it's all about education, like teaching people to embrace it, that it isn't a bad thing. It's it can be very good for you. And you know, if you pivot around the types of jobs that you currently have, there you can use AI to your advantage. Now, now the human element. This is this is something that I come across a lot as well. How do you balance human creativity with AI automation without losing that human element? Exactly, yeah. And that's that's also a real a real threat to us, right, as designers, as everybody can pick up cloud design or lovable and mock something up. right. So then, and it looks really polished. And I think that's the that's kind of the thing few people fall into is that it looks finished. And you know, I just did that in a few minutes. So why do I need you know, this big team and all this time? And I've got a couple of good stories on that. Like I'm I mean, one thing is this is kind of what probably brand designers you know that the logos and things have always struggled with because you know you see the Nike swoosh logo and you think, well, I could have drawn that on a nuck in two minutes. And you know, why did you know like our brand launches a new brand new brand logo and stuff, and they're kind of saying, like, wow, they spent millions on this. I mean, it's just a little, you know. And it's a bit so there's a bit of like that, like not really understanding the value in the process that goes into actually coming up with something amazing. And then the second bit is because it looks so finished so quickly, this fallacy that it is very, very good, you know, just because it looks polished, you know, it you know, like that it's the right thing, and it isn't that easy. And if it was that easy, we would have seen loads of unicorn startups sprung up from 16-year-olds that wipe coded something and lovable, and we haven't, because it isn't that easy in the end to do something really amazing, and also the problems that we're solving typically aren't you know trivial problems. so the design process still has kind of definitely their role, and I think the human creativity in that and the human judgment of what is good, what is you know, actually understanding the needs of people, all that is still very true. And I was just last week at Miro's conference, so Miro, the you know, digital whiteboard, but they're much more tool. And we kind of launched some collaboration with them where we are basically doing our design process, you know, all the good things like research, insights, prototyping, backlog creation, you know, directions, all of those, all of those things on mirror on a mirror board, but with AI on the mirror board as a partner to the designers, okay, to the product owner, to the client, like you know, as partners on that to accelerate it, to come up with more ideas, to think broader, think wider, to challenge. So we did some we coded some sidekicks, they call them in Miro, that are basically AI agents on the board with you. And one of them we did is the is the contrarian, like is the is the agent that will challenge what you've done on the board, yeah. And kind of say, like, look, you're you're only looking at from one direction, consider looking from another direction, like to kind of challenge us and to think wider. Or one of them we did is a bias agent that checks whether the team that did the board did the design thinking implicitly had a bias, because we typically do, right? We're kind of all people that work in a certain industry at a certain income level, blah, living in big cities, all those things. So it's it's kind of looking for those things. So that's I think good uses of AI in that context. Yes, yeah, no, very exciting and very interesting work that you guys are doing. Now, five years from now, what do you hope people will say about the impact AI has had on the business, creativity, and society from now until that time? I would hope. I'm I'm I'm a glass half-full guy. I hope that it create that it allows people to create more, more interesting, more diverse things, to create new things that they simply would not have been able to do before. That it unleashes creativity instead of looking at this kind of oh, it just makes everything really fast, and I don't need that many people, and people are out of a job. And that was kind of a belief I had for quite a while, like in, and this is kind of also what I talked to talk to our team about and to clients about. And then I just on the weekend when I was reading a book, a fiction book called The Ministry of the Future from a couple of years ago. Okay, and in there they introduce a real life yeah phenomenon called Jevon's Paradox. I've never heard of it before. But Jevon's Paradox is a thing from the 18th, 18th century from a guy called from an economist William Jevons. And when the steam engine came up here in England, he the steam engine made became more and more efficient, so they used less and less coal to travel further. Yes, yes. And you would think that would mean that we need less and less coal, but in actual fact, we needed more and more coal because it was so much more efficient, it became cheaper to travel, so more and more steam engines were made, right? And that effect that efficiency improvements actually increased demand is counterintuitive in a way, right? You would think, okay, if it's more and more efficient, I need less of that. Yeah, and that effect got studied in economics apparently over well since then and applies to everything that happened so far. So more fuel efficient cars actually mean more cars because it's cheaper to ride them. So actually, you know, that happens. More internet bandwidth means we consume more of it. faster internet, you know, more efficient, actually we use more of it. So if that holds true for AI, is kind of the current theory. Same thing. Like instead of you, you know, taking away all the jobs, we do more new things that we would have never thought of doing before. And then we would be in a in a richer, more interesting world. Who knows whether that's the case? But I discovered that on the weekend. I thought, oh, that's that's that's really interesting. I've never heard of it. I love that analogy. That's that's kind of yes, I'm gonna have to find them. so we have to wrap things up here, but your website is wongduty.com, that's D O D Y. And maybe you can just briefly tell the viewers and listeners what they can find on your site and this the services that your company does offer. Yeah, yeah. So the plug in the end. so yeah, we have we're you know a global design agency. Creve Technology is what we're all about using AI to really not just create more efficient things, but to enable new, better customer experiences in across all different industries. That's you know that's kind of what excites us, and that's what we'll have to work with people on. Wonderful. I can see your passion, Ralph, and it's wonderful that you mentioned your coding on the weekend. You're just you're just very passionate about the business that you're in. And isn't it wonderful? It's isn't it wonderful to love what you're doing? To love what you're doing. It's so important in life. Yes. Well, Ralph, it was certainly a pr pleasure. at WongDuty on social media, wongduty.com. Thank you very much for joining us. We'd love to have you on again in the future. As this AI train keeps steaming down the track and see where it leads to us to. Ralph, a pleasure and thanks for joining the Link Thru Social Podcast. Awesome. Thank you so much.