Founder of Athletes Endorse Eric Wein & Wes Towers Uplift 360 Digital Agency for Builders & Trades

OPENING & SOCIAL MEDIA / AI STORIES OF THE WEEK PAUL WRIGHT Hello, everyone, and welcome to episode number 14 of the Link Thru Social Podcast. Today we have two special guests. First, Eric Wein. He's the founder of Athletes Endorse, a Southern California marketing agency helping local businesses do something many have never considered, partner with college and high school athletes to create real hyper-local word of mouth. And second, we have Wes Towers, who runs Uplift 360, a digital agency for builders and trades. But before we get to that, let's go through some stories for the week for social media and AI. Amazon now lets you design custom merch using AI. On Monday, Amazon introduced a new feature that allows anyone to design merchandise using AI, posing an expanded challenge to online merch platforms like Redbubble, Bonfire, Spring, Fourth Wall, and others. The company announced that people are now able to create new products using AI prompts via the Alexa feature in its shopping app. In doing so, anyone can turn their idea into a design that can be featured on items from apparel to tumblers and more, available through Amazon's print-on-demand service, Merch on Demand. The move puts AI-generated merchandise directly inside Amazon's shopping app, lowering the barrier for consumers who want to turn ideas into physical products but lack traditional design skills. While typically print-on-demand businesses have catered to creators in various organizations, Amazon's new feature could make AI design merchandise become just another shopping option. Next, Smart Post App has a new build, V26.16, going up to the store this week to improve the week view mode. New and SmartPost. Week view is now an hourly list. Plan your schedule post hour by hour. Scan your week faster and see what's coming up without jumping between days. More clarity, less scrolling. Go to SmartPostApp.com to find out more. And next, there is a huge buzz about Claude [model name unclear in source]. What is Claude [model name unclear in source], you ask? Think of Claude [model name unclear in source] as the newest and most powerful version of Claude AI Assistant from Anthropic. It was released publicly in June 2026 and is designed to handle much larger, more complex tasks than previous Claude models. Imagine hiring an assistant. Older AI models would equal a smart assistant who can help with individual tasks. Claude [model name unclear in source] equals a senior project manager who can handle an entire project, remember details, work through complicated problems, and keep going for much longer without needing constant direction. Huge breakthrough here. What makes it different? Fable 5 can research large amounts of information, analyze long documents and PDFs, help write reports, articles, marketing plans, and business strategies, handle complicated multi-step tasks, work on projects that may take hours or even days to complete with minimal supervision. Claude [model name unclear in source] is Anthropic's most advanced public AI assistant yet. Essentially a highly skilled digital project manager that can tackle bigger, longer, and more complex work while keeping built-in safety controls. That is what is new this week. Now you're up to date. The Link Thru Social podcast will be back after this with both of our guests. SPONSOR MESSAGE - SMART POST APP SPONSOR MESSAGE Tired of stressing over what to post on social media? Meet Smart Post App. You're all in one solution to create, schedule, and grow your content effortlessly. In just a few taps, you can generate engaging posts, stay consistent, and keep your audience coming back for more. No more guessing, no more burnout, just smarter content faster. Whether you're a business owner, a creator, or an entrepreneur, smartpost helps you show up like a pro. Start posting smarter today at SmartPostApp.com. Smart Post App because your content should work for you.com. INTERVIEW 1 - ERIC WEIN / ATHLETES ENDORSE TRANSCRIPT Today's guest, I've been really looking forward to this. Really looking forward to it. from Disney and Lamps Plus to local campaigns built around college athletes. He's the founder of Athletes Endorse, a Southern California marketing agency helping local businesses do something many have never considered partnering with college and high school athletes to create real hyper-local word of mouth is pitch as simple. AI may be everywhere, but AI doesn't have the followers who trust it. Athletes do. And that trust may be one of the most underpriced assets in local marketing right now. Welcome to the Link Thru Social Podcast. Hi, Paul. Thank you. Great to meet with you. It's a pleasure. been really looking forward to this since we connected and set up the date for this recording. first of all, before we get started, maybe you can just tell us a little bit more about your background and then we can get into some questions. That sounds great. So I began my career early, kind of working on a journalism degree in college and developed marketing, public relations, worked for a variety of companies. You touched on a few. So I was at Disney six years, working in their interactive entertainment or video game division, traveled the world, Asia, and Europe, and worked on a variety of major franchises you've heard of, like Pirates of the Caribbean and Tron and some other things. so certainly that was memorable. Lamps Plus was a great opportunity as well. It's a leading home furnishings company in the United States online in stores. so yeah, I've just kind of worked my way up through a variety of marketing positions, mostly on the corporate side. And then I started doing this working locally with my own agency with athletes indoors. Nice. And when was this that you started to work with the athletes? So when I was on the corporate side in the late teens, around 2017, I started working with various professional athletes, oddly at a home furnishings company that its primary customer is like a 50-55 plus female. But what fell into our lamp, our lap, I should say, that was a slip of the tongue, was at Lamps Plus, we had an NFL prospect who wasn't on our radar, but fortunately his people came to us. His name was Forrest Lamp, and he was coming out of Western Kentucky, he was considered a first-round draft pick, and we started working with him. And to the delight of everyone on draft day, we announced it, and people thought it was surreal, like it was almost like unbelievable that this would happen without a person with that last name. So that became viral, got me more interested in working with athletes, and then right around 2021, the summer, NIL became an opportunity, which stands for name, image, and likeness. college athletes suddenly could accept payments to promote various businesses, products, which before there were strict rules about amateurism. Yes, but now they couldn't even speak to agents. And there was even an incident where someone working for an agent, a student at USC, drove a golf cart and picked up an athlete, and there was rep repercussions. But now they can have their own agents, they can command 10 sorry, five figures, six figures. so it's kind of surreal, and it was unusual when that happened. And then I began working that first academic year for March Madness. So I wanted to, I was at my company Newegg, which promotes computers and computer parts, obviously reaching 20-something consumers. So we partnered with Kate Reese, who's an athlete at the University of Arizona at the time. She was the team had gone to the final and lost to Stanford that year. So we featured her on the homepage for a March Madness sale, and it did really well. And then from there I said, you know, NIL just kind of expands the athlete promotional opportunities to a much wider group of people, and then of course, businesses that can access that. Very interesting. Yeah, I it's I did not know this because I was of the understanding, like you said, with the way it was before, that they were not students were not allowed to, student athletes weren't allowed to accept any type of money or you know offers with dealing with different brands. So that's that's really good that it has changed. And I just love the whole premise. I'm I've been pushing this a lot lately on the podcast. AI is really progressing and really helping marketers and business do things a lot faster, more efficient, and that, but you still can't take away the personal touch. And especially for small businesses that were are dealing in local communities, it's still very important. So this setup that you have put together here is really, really interesting. how can local businesses use athlete marketing to drive sales? So, to your point, it is largely untouched. I don't see a lot of people doing what I'm doing, which part of me wishes there were, because when I approach local business owners, it's all new to them, as it should be. so they're used to getting calls and emails from influencers who are you know people who create content kind of full-time on the internet. And, you know, this is similar to that, but different. So here you have, if you're theoretically within driving distance of a college campus, even a junior college campus, you'd have a wealth of athletes on that campus who are well liked, who have ideally a social media following, they maintain their profile, and they're admired because of their hard work and determination. Certainly, they compete in front of live audiences, certainly not you know through the internet. So they don't have to be the star, they can be someone who's a role player, and sometimes the role players have better profiles because they put more investment in terms of their time and their assets into that. So, what I do is I work with a local business, I bring in the athlete to promote it. If it's a restaurant, let's say we'll show their food, we'll have the athlete eat the food and it'll be a script, or it'll be their authentic opinions of it. I always check with them do you really like this? Is this your favorite? Because I want the transparency. They're not playing a character like an actor or actress, they're themselves. So that's really important, certainly. and then really it's not just college, but it's also high school. Because with high school students going on or athletes going on to college, they also are not bound by the same amateur rules. So they too can also enter these agreements. what's great about high school is because more businesses are located, of course, near high schools or more high schools, and then you've got a really, really passionate, connected community within that high school, not just students, but their parents, their relatives, locals or alumni that follow that high school. So, really the opportunities are massive here, in my opinion, across the United States, in every state since this became legal in July 2021. It's just untapped. Right, right. No, that's that's really good. And it also prepares these young men and women that are in high school sports or in college sports for the future if they become professionals and are dealing with you know different endorsement deals and companies. are you mentoring them or giving them some support as far as management or when they're still in the high school and college ranks? Yeah, so my business is interesting. It's not as much an NIL agency, which a lot of people do. They bring in a bunch of athletes, let's say 10 to 20, and they represent them. What I do is I work directly with local business owners to kind of work on the marketing side to secure that opportunity for them, explain the value. We see a lot of really this motivates customers to go into the business to try them for the first time, certainly their peers, but also anyone that follows that university or school. So I work on both sides. I work very closely with the business owner, help them understand what I'm doing, get their messaging, understand what products they want to promote, share their my script with them, and kind of go over the details. But then on the other side, there's nobody really to manage the athlete. So I take that on myself. I'll do a Zoom call with them, I'll go through very detailed outline of what's expected of them in terms of performance, also, you know, introducing themselves to the business owner, thanking them, what they should wear, etc., all the logistics. And I try to keep in touch with them as needed. I've hired at least one athlete twice who was really outstanding. He was just a cool guy, he improvised well, and I really liked him as a person. And I thought he was really smart and mature for his age. So I would, you know, definitely look for him again. Sometimes athletes don't want to jump into these, surprisingly, because they pay pretty well. But when they do that, if I have to go and get somebody who's really dependable and reliable who I've worked with, I'll I'll pursue that person. Right, right. now I have to ask you, we I mentioned AI earlier. how are you utilizing AI in your business? And also are you using it to look for potential athletes out there in the various local areas? So I really like AI, but I know its limitations. I've recently jumped in full time and started creating AI videos, which are kind of polarizing. A lot of people don't like AI video, they feel like they're being tricked. So I put a kind of disclosure up early within ideally the first 10 seconds to say the disclosure says this is AI or this is a photo of a real food with AI. So then I think the viewer backs off and says, okay, they're not trying to fool me that this is a real person. And obviously, AI video is taking off, and that's one of the reasons I want to offer it to my clients. and then of course I use it to help me with scripts. Just because I'm a one-person show, sure, I have to do all the business side, even the photography, script writing, directing, you know, everything involved. So script writing, if I can help a little bit, or caption writing, I still think you need the human element because if you're lazy and you just copy and paste something, you're gonna regret it later. So I do think AI is a valuable tool. It helps us cut some corners, it's like a personal assistant, but it also definitely has limitations. Right. I'm glad that you're putting that disclaimer at the moment. It's great. People are shell-shocked right now. Is it real? Is it not real? And it can turn people off of a brand or a business or service that whatever the company is providing. So transparency is very important at this stage when people are just kind of lost about what could be real and what could not be real. yeah, for sure. Now, you are also the author of Sales Spike, an insider playbook for attracting new customers through athlete marketing. Why don't you tell us a little bit about your book that is available on Amazon, I believe? Yes, that's correct. Sales Spike is available on Amazon and it essentially empowers all local business owners or small business owners to do what I'm doing, to bring in an athlete and promote their business. And that gives me the opportunity to kind of reach more people that most of my work is through Southern California because I usually meet in person with the business owner to explain to them what I'm doing, you know, certainly gain trust from them. And then I have to go do the photo shoot with the athlete. It's all done in person, of course, it can't be done virtually. So this gives me an opportunity to reach the other essentially 49 states to empower those local business owners. It's really doable, it's just very early still, even though it's five years in, people don't understand it. You need an IL contract that the athlete has to sign, they have to share it with their university to ensure that their eligibility is maintained and they don't violate rules. There's certain products and services that they're not allowed to promote, which they're available readily, but not everybody knows them. And there's just a variety of nuances that I try to educate people on by reading the book. you know, obviously I believe really strongly in NIL and then also in the local market. and I think it's just a great opportunity that I hope grows in the next five to ten years as more people understand it and see the opportunity, certainly through social media and bringing in more customers. Right. Yeah. Education, I guess, is the key at this point because I guess not everyone is clear about the different rules and limitations and what have you. So yeah, that's that's wonderful that your book is out on available on Amazon. And I encourage anyone that's viewing or listening right now to check out Sales Spike. so getting back to the athletes, we have the high school athletes, we have the college athletes. When they're set to the college athletes potentially becoming professionals or have you given any thought about a continuation of that into the pros, or you're just main your main focus is on the high school and college students. Yes, I'm open to certainly any opportunity. And I've worked with professional athletes before. I think two to three percent maybe go on to be pros. So the majority, even the stars, aren't going to move on. And a lot of the athletes I work with are from non-revenue sports. So people think the quarterback from you know the top five power conferences or top four. And I work, I might work with a women's soccer player from UC Santa Barbara or from a smaller, it's still a Division I university, and that person still has a full scholarship, they're an athlete. they're not ideally transferring, you know, when the opportunity arises, but you know, I still work with them. My first project in this, ironically, was I have a lot of agent connections, and one of them worked at what used to be Wasserman, and they had a number of clients who were going in last year's NBA draft. So I was able to secure a deal with one of them who went with the 14th pick of the first round to the San Antonio Spurs. His name is Carter Bryant, and his family is very passionate about the deaf community. His grandparents are both deaf, and so we connected them with Gallaudet University in the DC area, which is the only university as I understand for deaf people globally. And he was able to do sign language with his mother, who's also a sign language you know, person that knows how to kind of communicate that well and translate her. And then he went in the NBA draft, you know, a few days later, and the university saw just incredible positive feedback about this, and it did millions of views and went semi-viral. So, you know, I like telling stories. That's really what I'm passionate about. And whether it's the you know, local high school athlete or it's someone going in a pro draft, I think those options are great. And it's an opportunity to connect a brand or a product promotion with those and kind of elevate them with that athlete. Well, that's that is a wonderful story. Very sweet. I'm I'm really Pleased that you had a chance to come in to speak to us today, Eric. Your website is AthletesEndorse.com. where can they find you on social media? And maybe you can just wrap things up with a bit of information of what's on the website. Yeah, absolutely. You can go to my website and learn more about what I do, and certainly connect with me and my email. you can find me on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook at AthletesEndorse. and that's my business and certainly opportunities for Southern California business owners that are looking to boost their company and bring in more customers through local athletes. And then, of course, read my book and you can learn more about it, whether you're local or you're across the United States. It really should ideally tell you how to do this and to benefit your own local business. Wonderful. Thank you for having me on, Paul. Oh, my pleasure, Eric. Thanks. thanks for joining us. And it's AthletesEndorse.com. And I encourage everyone to check out that website. And Eric is doing a wonderful job in a newly untapped market. It's just incredible. thanks again, Eric, and you have yourself a wonderful day. Thank you, you too, Paul. The Link Thru Social podcast will be back right after this. LINK THRU SOCIAL - EVENT PARTNER MESSAGE PAUL WRIGHT / PROMOTIONAL MESSAGE Are you a promoter or organizer for MMA, for expos, food festivals, music festivals, pro wrestling, boxing, or sporting events? Why don't you have Link Thru Social become your social media partner? Go to LinkthruSocial.com, that's T H R U, to contact us and find out more information. Have Link Thru Social become your social media partner. INTERVIEW 2 - WES TOWERS / UPLIFT 360 TRANSCRIPT And welcome back to the Link Thru Social podcast. Well, we have an amazing guest joining us today on the show, Wes Towers from Uplift360. Wes runs Uplift360, a digital agency for builders and trades. His focus is simple smarter websites, practical SEO, and growth you can measure. He earned his playbook on real jobs, not in theory, and now helps others skip the painful lessons that he had. Wes, welcome to the show. Fantastic to be with you today, all the way from Australia. So we were just talking about the weather before the show. different, different zone. And we're getting into the cold months now. So yeah, you're you're getting the warm months. Yeah, we're the kind of the opposite, aren't we? Opposite sides of the world and opposite weather. But thank you, thank you so much for joining us today, Wes. before we get into the interview a little deeper, why don't you just maybe give you a give us a little insight into your background and how you got here today? Yeah, so been running the digital agency over 20 years now, Uplift 360 wasn't always branded that way. We rebranded maybe, I think it was about eight or nine years ago now. but yeah, it's been a wild journey. I started like a lot of us founder-led businesses. We you start with the skill set, and there's just so many gaps in your knowledge that you gotta figure out and learn the hard way. Yeah. So I started in a marketing company where that's where I was first working. I started graphic design multimedia and then landed that job in the in the year 2000 it was. And that this is how marketing has evolved. So they'd they were an award-winning marketing company. I actually found them in a book, having won award an award and called them, got the job. They'd never they'd never designed a website before. We had one computer connected to the internet on a dial-up modem, one email address shared. so this is I feel so old saying that, but marketing, when you think about marketing these days, you mostly think about online. So the world has changed dramatically since I started. And we got a first job to design a website when I was working at that at that company. I'd only been there a few months, and they said, right, you're the young guy, better figure out how to build that site because it already won the proposal. So I did that and found I loved it. I love that the creative, but I also love the technical side, and the technical side has obviously changed rapidly. So that's how I got into it and started my own company and had no idea how to do anything in terms of business, but figured it out, didn't know how to do client meetings, proposals, anything. So I did that, started an agency and started to win some clients and figure it out the hard way as you mentioned. Right, right. So you deal a lot with construction companies, and I'm I'm very interested to get dig deep into this. So, first of all, why do so many construction companies still struggle to stem at like to stand out online in this kind of economy? Yeah, well, you tend to avoid what you don't understand or is confusing. So it can be a couple of different reasons. And so construction companies typically will be led by someone who is not a computer person. and so that they work their way up through the ranks, you know, they started in the trade of some description on the tools, they enjoy that kind of thing, and the pragmatic, practical, down-to-earth, hands-on people, but they're not necessarily computer people. And so, as we mentioned before, marketing is so much online these days. So you tend to avoid things that are not part of your wheelhouse, but also the other aspect agencies like mine have the temptation to use lingo and jargon and things that are just super confusing. So I think it's the combination of both those things, avoiding what you don't understand, but also the agency is doing a terrible job of explaining it in real terms that make practical sense for these people. So then nothing happens, and then so there's terrible outcomes. But the good news is if you are keen to get involved in marketing in some degree in a trade or construction-related business, the competition probably isn't doing a wonderful job. So you've got a remarkable opportunity to stand out above them. I don't know about where you're from, but I know for sure here in Canada, the construction industry is really up against the wall to find quality, quality workers, not just general tradesmen, but in specific niche areas of the construction business. It's a huge problem. they're they're forced to try to find people from elsewhere, other countries, and that type of thing. And they still can't keep up. do you find that where you are as well and in the marketing, I guess, to try to get the word out to these quality type workers. Yeah, absolutely. Really quite similar to Canada in a whole lot of ways. I've spoken to I do a lot of podcasting, so I speak to a lot of people, and it feels as though we're really aligned in a number of ways around that to attract quality staff. So an interesting shift happened a few years ago when this started to become a real problem is that with the marketing we were working on, we were marketing less for winning more projects at that time and more about attracting, building a brand to attract quality team members, yeah, which was a real flip in terms of how most people thought about marketing. But all of a sudden we were adding career pages to websites and thinking about how we make a message to it attract attracts quality staff. So that's just came out of necessity. so things shift again a little bit. So we've still got that, we've still got that issue, but we've also got challenges with people winning enough work, building materials costs blowing out. I know that's similar to what you're experiencing. I mean, in Canada you've got lumber and so on, so timber and a lot of those things you know you can take care of, but the costs are blowing out for you for you guys as and it is here as well. We're so far from the rest of the a lot of the world. So getting materials of any of any kind is a is a challenge typically. So yeah, new challenges, but new certain new opportunities and new reasons to go to market, whether it be through social media and you know, you know, how you how you present yourself to make a better business. Yeah. Sure. The construction companies, they have to seem attractive to these rare quality type workers that are in a specialty type of trade. And it's it's it's it's amazing that you know it's not like you said, it's not about marketing to get jobs or to get contracts, it's actually to make yourself seem or the company seem that it's the place to work. And like yeah, it's totally flipped from when in other types of professions and industry where you know it's the exact opposite. You're you're trying to trying to get the work, but not the workers, right? Yeah, well that's right. And so the I suppose the good news is as things hopefully eventually shift with the necessity for attracting staff, the good news is when you build a quality brand, that reputation will echo through every aspect of business. And so not only whilst you might be gearing it somewhat around attracting quality team members, skilled trades, eventually when that's sort of taken care of to a better, to a higher level, that those qualities will still echo through marketing to attract business as well. So and it usually it's a bit of a combination of both that you're trying to do at any given time. Of course. Now, with the emergence of AI, is SEO still relevant in the mix or is there a smarter way to get found? It's definitely still relevant because when someone's ready to buy something, oftentimes they'll still go to Google or another search engine, but most of us are on Google. so you really want to attract those people that are really ready to pull their wallet out and make a transaction. So it's still really important. There's lots of there's less traffic going through Google these days in the research level. So but the good news is the search engine optimization strategies, the quality strategies, there were a lot of fishy ones out there for a while. But the quality strategies that help you show up highly in Google will also help you show up in large language models. So it's not that they've become outdated, but the quality content that surfaces to the right. They're all trying to achieve the same thing. Give the very best quality information to someone looking for something very precise and specific. And we're all getting more specific with what with what we're looking for because we understand the tools, understand context and language, large language. Yes. So no longer do we necessarily search for service and location, plumber Melbourne. We might search for a specific type of plumbing and a specific suburban and all the all those types of things in full sentences and sometimes conversing with our tools backward and forward. So the quality content is so important these days. You can't really cheat your top way to the top in Google or in the large language models. You've got to put the work in. Yeah, that's that's the key. You still have to put the work in, right? Yeah, it's you know, people think that with SEO, oh, it's gonna be all roses and we don't have to do so much anymore. But no, you have to put the work in. 100% absolutely now. How do you build trust and credibility online so buyers will choose you first or potential clients will choose you first? Great question because trust is rapidly eroding, it feels like it certainly really is online. You know, we don't trust what we read because we know AI might have produced it. We don't even know if anyone proofread it before it's published. we don't trust what we see that in terms of the photographs because we know they're not all not necessarily real, and even videos. I mean, we've all seen pretty exciting videos of celebrities long past, and it's kind of fun to watch. We know it's not real, but it also we all realize we can't necessarily believe anything we see these days. So, how do you how do you create trust in a world where that trust is eroded so much? And so you've got to leverage trust signals that are outside your manipulation and control. So have quality reviews, for example, or for third-party endorsements by any by any ways you can. And to do that, you've got to provide a quality service as a priority. Right. But I like to think of it less as a sales funnel these days. So we used to, we were all in marketing, we're all thinking about sale lead funnels. So you would attract lots of leads in the top of the funnel and you'd contact them in various touch points and hopefully create a customer or client at the end. Right. But kind of a linear process you try and build. But I don't like to think about it like that anymore. I like to think of it as a cycle. And actually, the client or customer isn't at the end result, they actually become the top again because they're the work that you do for them is the trust signal. You obviously, as I said before, you've got to provide great quality service, but it you've got to attract a review, a testimonial, a case study, a story. And for trades and construction who are building something tangible, physical in the world to have photographs of the projects they're working on and publish those projects because it's proof that you actually do the work that you say you do. People might recognize some of the buildings that you've worked on potentially. You know, I've got a client who's who builds massive commercial buildings. I had no idea when they came a became a client. I thought they were just a small player, but then they showed me the buildings they were working on and said, Why have you not shared this on every platform you can? Because once people can see, you know, across social media platforms on your website, that gold mine of content and opportunity, it all comes from the client work you're doing. So think about the projects you're working on, not just the project themselves, but how do you repurpose that instant trust signals that you can get massive value from? For sure. Like the photos of past work, like you were saying, that whether it's still photos or drone photos to make it even or drone videos to make it even more appealing. but the text has to still go with the photos and the videos. You have to do that in order to let the let the bots from Google or whatever search engine they're using. You still have to feed that information in because yes, they can determine certain things from photos or videos, but it has to be accompanied with some sort of text as well. Don't do you agree, yeah, 100%. It's because it can digest written content so quickly. It's large language models, it's precisely what they do, and you've got to feel that beast as best you can with your own brand and materials and make sure whatever you write, even if you it'll probably be AI assisted because it's it makes things far more easy. Of course. But you've got to make sure it's in your authentic brand voice and it's aligned with what you truly want to say and the your positioning and all of those things. Don't lean upon the tool to do all the heavy lifting, you've got to be the thought leader still. But it's just that these tools can help rapidly publish and repurpose content far and wide, and so that's the massive benefit. But people get it wrong, they take shortcuts, and yeah, that can cause more harm than good. They fall into that trap sometimes. That's very true. Yeah, that's a temptation. Now, how can smaller firms beat the bigger brands online with you know with limited budgets? Yeah, so for our world, because they're they'll only serve a geographic region, so they haven't got to compete with everyone. So it's the balancing act. If you're in a small town, you're probably going to be more generalist because if you're the local electrician, we call them Sparkies here in Australia. We've got names for everything. If you're the local Sparky and you're the only one of two or three in your town, we're probably going to do all electrical works, and that's perfectly fine. And you would mark it to that. But if you're in a large city, you're probably to stand out above everybody, you have to be more intentional about your niche in which you serve. So the ideal type of work. Are you commercial electrician? Are you do you do large, you know, the custom built projects, or do you do the volume build projects? Some people don't want to do the volume because yeah, in our part of the world, the volume there the margin is quite low. It's repeat work, so there's pros and cons with any niche, but to really think it think through precisely who you want to work for. And the and the way to think about it is your very best clients right now, your very best future clients probably look just like your very best clients like net right now. So think about who are your best for you clients, how do you attract more of the same of those? And whenever you're doing any marketing, think about those people in your mind. And maybe it's even drilling down to the one ideal client you've already got now, and write everything around and publish everything around what would appeal to that one person. And there'll be other people just like them that'll be attracted into your world. For sure, for sure. Well, Wes, we're almost out of time. I just want to remind everyone about your website. It's Uplift360.com.au. And you can be found on social media at Uplift underscore 360. If they visit your website, Wes, what are they going to find? And maybe just elaborate on a bit of some of the services that you do offer. Yeah, so as you mentioned, it's an Australian web website, obviously, with the AU. But you'll if you did jump on there, you would see brands, global brands. Some of them you if you're in the trades construction world, you'd you probably recognize some of them, building materials and so on. But from there, you can book a strategy call with me directly. That's probably the primary call to action. We should all have a call to action on our website. So that's the one on the home page. And as you mentioned, there's social media in the footer. Anyone can connect there. But yeah, so we do a lot of website design, development, the marketing aspect of all of that, and working out content strategies to attract Google's attention and the large language models as well. So working with clients. And because we're so niche, we kind of have a good sense of the types of clients we work with and we what will likely work. What will likely work, what works for one electrician in Australia is likely to work reasonably well for an electrician in Canada, for example, because of the same kind kinds of needs. And every business is nuanced, but we've got a base of understanding and knowledge to work from and start from, at least, and then f figure out the unique aspects of what a company needs as well. Perfect. Well, I learned a new nickname today, Sparky. I love that. Yeah, that's awesome. Well, Wes Towers, thank you so much. once again, your website is Uplift360.com.au. I invite any of our listeners or viewers to check out the Wes's site, and I'm sure you can reach out to him through the site or on social media at Uplift underscore three sixty. Wes, thanks again for joining us and wish you all the best in Australia. Thanks, Paul. It's been brilliant. Okay everyone. the link to a social podcast will be back right after this.