What Businesses Should & Should not Automate + Drive Awareness, Engagement & Create Business Results

OPENING - EPISODE 31 PAUL WRIGHT Hello, everyone, and welcome to episode number thirty-one of the Link Thru Social Podcast. My name is Paul Wright. Well, we have two really nice guests for us today: Nathan Graham from syntheticco.ca and Sherry Langberg from Babbelbox.com. we'll get to those guests just in a few minutes. But I would like to thank everyone that has been liking, sharing, downloading all of our episodes either on YouTube or wherever you get your audio podcast. We really appreciate your support. The Link Thru Social Podcast is building a community here that keeps getting stronger every week. And we thank you for that. we're gonna get to Nathan and Sherry right after this brief message. SPONSOR MESSAGE - TICKETPORTX SPONSOR MESSAGE You've worked hard to build your audience. So why send your customers somewhere else? Introducing white-label digital storefronts from TicketportX. 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Sell tickets for multiple events on one page, create ticket packages across different dates, manage entire event series from a single storefront, and spend less money marketing multiple links and event pages. One platform, one link, endless possibilities. TicketportX, powering your brand, your events, and your growth. INTERVIEW 1 - NATHAN GRAHAM / SYNTHETIC ECHO PAUL WRIGHT & NATHAN GRAHAM And welcome back to the Link Thru Social Podcast. Well, we have a wonderful guest for us today, Nathan Graham, and he's from syntheticco.ca. Nathan is an AI entrepreneur, author, and founder of Synthetic Echo. Nathan helps business owners use AI to automate repetitive work, strengthen their marketing, improve lead conversation or sorry, conversion, and operate with the power of a much larger team. He's also the author of the Synthetic Echo and AI workflows from cold lead to closed deal. He is also the author of Why Won't He Just Log Off, which I love, which explores gaming, parenting, human needs, and the growing impact of technology on family relationships. Well, Nathan, welcome to the show. Awesome. Thank you so much for having me. What a great introduction. I love it. Well, I appreciate that. And I appreciate you taking the time to join us today. before we get into the the deep world of Synthetic Echo, why don't you just give us a little bit more information about your background and how you arrived here today? Yeah, absolutely. So ironically, I was actually a realtor for 16 years, a real estate broker in the Durham region in Ontario, Canada. And I've always did quite well. I was in the top 1% of realtors. I've sold about 30 homes a year, give or take on average, right? Depending on the year. And I've also always loved psychology. So I took a lot of psychology courses through different online platforms, universities, life coaching things, and everything else. And then this beautiful thing called AI came out, which was this very I don't know if a lot of people saw it, but it was this really delightful mix of technology, which I loved, along with the psychology of humanity. Like it's ironic, I don't think people are realizing yet, but this is going to force the questions of what does it mean to be human? What does it mean to give to master? and it's just been this beautiful topic. And that's kind of how I fell into AI a few years ago. Amazing. Yeah, no, it's it's been quite a ride so far, and it's it's just getting started with AI for sure. Now, how I I'm I'm gonna ask you some questions here, Nathan. I'm I'm very intrigued with your answers. How can one person use AI to operate with the power of an entire company? Yeah, so I I've I haven't coined it. I thought I coined it. I thought I was a genius, but then I Googled it and someone else said it. I call AI the great equalizer for small business. so in the real estate world, this was the first aha moment. So, first of all, I got into using AI for my own business. That's again how I started. And I wanted to automate, learn. And one thing we have in the real estate world is we have these massive teams. and these massive teams can have $30,000 a month marketing budgets. They have ISAs, inside sales associates, they have they hire the best, the cream of the crop, they have large salaries. And for the longest time, this is what we had to compete against. Real estate's a very funny thing. You either do horribly or you do really well, and the vast majority do horribly, and they only sell a couple homes a year. Now, there's a lot of reasons for that. Yet for the ambitious and motivated realtor, it was very hard to compete against the big boys. And then, as I said, this beautiful thing called AI came out, where all of a sudden I had these tools now that responded to my clients at two in the morning that allowed me to intake 1500 internet leads and filter through them. that allowed me to make sure that I didn't forget things that became my automated assistant. Like just this morning, my my AI assistant reminded me to send out my newsletters, create my podcast, give me my schedule of my day. And as an entrepreneur, you often get two types of entrepreneurs, many more, but we'll talk about two types. One is like that very organized person, and the other one is that very chaotic person. Well, I'm definitely of the chaotic sort, right? and so when we look at this great equalizer, I found in real estate it allowed me to automate so much of my business workflows, touch programs, lead generation, lead conversion, customer service support, and so much more. And then I started creating things like websites, and and my first the ha moment was I can actually create things that are competing against the big boys. And vibe coding became a real thing. So a lot of what I do is vibe coding, and I actually have a real coder that double checks everything. He works ironically, he has a really cool job. He works for NASA right now. He's I probably shouldn't say this, but he one of his jobs is to actually code in drone defenses for NASA rocket ships, which is super cool. So he him and I have partnered on it where I do the bulk of the creation and then he checks it into the background and have a few partners in it. But we got on this vibe coding thing, and all of a sudden I realized I'm creating CRMs, I'm creating websites, I'm creating workflows that are better than the biggest companies that nobody's been able to touch or break into all of a sudden. And now all of a sudden I'm talking to 500-person teams, I'm talking to brokerages about bringing this in and it clicked. AI is the great equalizer. AI allows the small person to start to build who's ambitious and compete against the big companies. And we have this window that's going to allow us to do this for a while. Yeah, no, it's it's absolutely fascinating how it can accomplish so much so quickly and make you more efficient. Now, how can AI move a customer from a cold lead to a closed deal without the experiencing the experience feel robotic? Because this is a big concern for a lot of people. And I come across this every day. They don't want the experience to feel robotic. So, what what what is your your thoughts on that? So, so first of all, there is a point that AI is not going to replace humans. I think we'll talk about actually we'll talk about that in a minute. So, when when I look at lead workflow, for example, if I look at internet leads in a real estate world and and this converts into my Synthetic Echo world, this converts into any business world. at most, if I was properly handling them, I could handle 150 at a time. So I run a Facebook ad, someone clicks on the house, they come in between my calls, my text messages. If I'm properly following up, doing my four to eight contacts to them, I could handle 150 before I started going crazy, right? Right. Well, a lot of that automate or a lot of that that initial contact was feeding through who's actually interested. Did you click just to see photos, or are you actually thinking of moving? Did you click to actually see my coffee shop or my product, or are you actually thinking about buying? That is what we can automate. So it took me from being able to deal with about 150 leads to about, well, probably about 2,000 leads because AI automates all those initial touches, has the initial conversations via text message, via email flows. It it although all my AI does admit that it's AI, it's very natural sounding, it's very natural flowing. And then it gets to this point now where it comes to me where it's like, okay, AI is done. Now it's my job. I'm a salesperson by trade. I sell my products, I sell myself. now a human steps in. So it's basically pre-qualified them. And so now I can deal with if I don't know if this will make sense, but now I can deal with 150 good leads at a time versus 150 just raw leads. And this is how it automated the process. So if I look at those 150 good leads, if I had a 2% conversion, that would be absolutely amazing. Now I have 150 great leads, which I'm gunning more towards a 30 to 40 percent conversion on them, right? That's how it allows me to scale. And then obviously cash flow comes in, scalability comes in, blah, blah, blah, all the rest after that. That's a different conversation. But yeah, yeah, that's the initial points. Now, will AI make human trust, judgment, and personal connection more valuable rather than less valuable? Yes. I love I love that question because I feel like if I ever said no to someone on that, it'll be like, what? it absolutely will. Because, see, there's this really good news is AI allows us to automate to this point where it's no longer, if you're my largest competition, it's no longer about us competing against budgets and us competing against advertisements. Like I created a program called Echo Hub, which is a full social media brander. It gives you top-end social media. You don't need to spend $3,500 a month on a social media manager. Now it's $150 a month, right? so it gives me this ability to compete. So the good news is now when I'm competing against the big boys, I'm competing off natural skill and talent, my scale sales, my customer service, my scripts, my my flows, everything else. Now the problem is here's the bad news. Now I'm just competing off my personal talent and my mastery of my product because this is where it's now going to get lost, is and people are gonna have the same little thing. Entrepreneur is gonna blame the all the systems don't work, blah, blah. That's that's yes. This is now like it gives us the opportunity to massively hone and practice our craft, right? So when I talk about scripting as an example, is I need to guide a client with trust through a process. and I need to make sure I have that presentation down path. It's not about manipulation, it's not about deceiving, it's about you're hiring me out of trust and you're looking to me to lead you, and I need to know how to properly do that, right? Right. If I don't have time to master that skill because I'm too busy working on my social media or my other stuff, then that's gonna go down the wayside. So this is where human connection is gonna become important. And we're gonna have this massive divide. I I really truly believe the the difference between the wealthy and the poor is gonna massive divide because what will happen is is people will take this opportunity to try to automate their whole life and this human trust that you're talking about is gonna break down in their business. And then you're gonna have people who automate this and allow them to master their craft, and by mastering their craft, they're gonna dominate a market, right? So, best example I can give you is I spoke to two separate companies about this. One had an administrator quit at 8 30 at night on a Sunday right before their their busy season. They had no idea what the heck to do. It was a small, busy landscaping company, and so they got AI start answering their phones, AI started answering their emails, and now they don't need an administrator. So that that position is now out of a job. But then I talked to a high-end real estate team actually just the other day, Jennifer Jones, if you know the name from your area. we're talking about her, yeah, we're talking about her administrative crew, and she is never thinking about replacing her administrators, even though AI is coming in because her administrators embraced AI, used it to enhance their job, and created mastery over what they're doing. So human trust and human mastery is going to become so much more important to find what you're passionate about and love and just master it. Oh, I love I love that. yeah, you're right. It's just, you know, you have to embrace it. Embrace it. Don't be afraid of it. Embrace it and it'll just make you more productive. it's it's certainly the tagline that people should really let resonate in their in their minds, because if you don't, it's just gonna it's gonna pass you by very quickly. Well, absolutely. And and kind of going back to that point, it's yes, A, you're gonna have to embrace it, otherwise you're gonna slow. That's one of the things, and I'm not gonna fully dive into it until we talk about it. But that's one of the things I really talked about in in the book that I wrote is about how if we don't embrace it, we'll we'll we will slowly die. Yes, but going back to mastery, and and I really cannot say this part enough, is AI is this amazing tool that allows you to be human in the best of ways. Yes, but 90% of the people are not going to take advantage of that. We just know the numbers. And I really hope anybody listening to this, if if you have one takeaway, is go take action and mastery. Go go find who to hang out with to learn this because this is your opportunity. This is this is having the first website when the a when the internet started up. This is having the first internet leads when Facebook first started selling things. This is your opportunity to grow. Like you you no longer have an excuse. Right now, the only excuse is you and not taking action. So I really hope people utilize this opportunity and embrace it. 100%. Now, you also have another book that I mentioned in the intro, and I'd like to just quickly touch on that as we have a few minutes left. why won't he just log off? I love the title. Yes. As you can tell from behind me, I'm a grown adult. I still game to this day. I I'm a gamer, but go I want to go back to this concept of mastery. Everything I love to do is focused around mastery. So now when I game in the world, I actually game with with it's in a game called World of Warcraft. I'm in a top 1% rating guild. We we get what's called cutting edge, like we we we get to the the top of the top, the cream of the crop, so to say, like one step below going pro, right? that's what I love to do, but it wasn't always that way. at one point I used to game out of pure addiction, and I've lost jobs as a result of it in my early 20s. I nearly had a divorce, or my wife actually just never nearly married me as a result of it. And I started speaking to parents. Remember, I told you I love psychology and I love technology. So I started speaking to parents, and I noticed a lot of parents were going through this, and there was a disconnect. The parent sees it as as TV and television as an entertainment source, right? So, why can't he just log off? Why can't he just unplug it and and then pick it up tomorrow? Well, the problem is we have core human needs that we we try to get out of life. I fulfill it now through business and mastery. But at one point, when my life, when I hated my job, I hated who I was, I didn't like my directional path. I thought life was over in my early 20s, which is ridiculous to think back to, but I'm sure a lot of people in their early 20s think that. So I respect that. gaming fulfilled all these needs that normally jobs and social atmospheres created. And so if you just go and plug that game for me back in that day, I'm letting my friends down, I'm letting myself down. I'm now viewing myself as a failure. And so when you see this disconnect between parents of like, why can't they just shut off an entertainment source and teenagers or your partner getting their core needs of self-esteem and value and worth out of this, and you just unplug that, it creates a lot of issues. Yes, that's a very hard thing to explain, especially when you have a frantic mother, which I've been speaking to, I speak to all the time, who is stressing through this. So that was really my big thing behind wanting to get the book out there was to help parents and on twofold. Number one, see where that disconnect is happening, understand where their teen or their partner is coming from, understand this is more than just an entertainment source, what happens when you unplug the machine. But then the second part ends up happening is if I go to my world, I'm actually going to interview my guild leader on my on my podcast because I think this is an amazing thing. Because when when we prep for a raid, we do research. I research my class, I research my rotations. I have to make sure I'm I I can't stay up till two in the morning. Ironically, before my raid nights, I make sure I get a good sleep, I make sure I eat well, I make sure I'm in a quiet place, I make sure my research is done. I then go and I fail like like four or five hundred times. Like we're we're on a boss right now that we failed 200 times on and we're still pushing through. Are these not the most amazing business principles we put into place? As I run Synthetic Echo, as I do my as you're doing your podcast, we research. We're gonna have great ones, we're gonna have bad ones, we're gonna fail, we're gonna learn, we're gonna push through, and and we're gonna see what those results are. So, really what happened in my brain, and I'm trying to show other parents this, is I would by turning gaming into mastery, it actually turned my entire business into mastery. And it is all relatable skills that go back and forth. So that's really what the book kind of boils about. Oh, that sounds incredible. I I'm definitely gonna be looking for a copy of that because I I think I think it's very important to talk about. And I'm I'm sure a lot of our viewers and listeners as they're watching or or listening to this episode, they're they're they have these concerns about their kids, or maybe they're having their own issues as being a gamer or so I also want to ask, how do we embrace the potential of AI why while protecting our children since we're on that subject? Protecting our children, relationships, human. So this is gonna sound like the weirdest book recommendation to read, but it's great. I read a book called The Tao of Pooh. It's Taoism explained in Winnie the Pooh. Now, if you can tell from my cross, I I have I have Christian faith and all the rest, but but they but one of the things in in Taoism, and ironically in Christianity, it talks about being the uncarved block, you know? The when you see a carved statue, it became what it is going to be for the rest of its time. You see a a stone table, that table has its function for the rest of the time. But when you are the uncarved block, which is nasty and ugly and unshaped, what resides within you is the image of all things. You can become whatever you are. Now, the same with the the clay and the potter, like there's so many analogies that go to this. This is how I started to approach technology, and when I did, it started making a very big difference. Number one, AI is this, and I this is my daughter, by the way, is seven, and her and I actually use AI together. So, number one, I teach her that she is the master of AI, AI is not the master of her. AI is not always correct because not that it doesn't have the knowledge, it's understanding what makes humans and AI differently. So, in in humanity, we understand context extremely well very quickly. Like, for example, coming on this podcast, you did not explain to me exactly what you do for a living, but I'm pretty confident this isn't a baking podcast. Because I was able just to look at this and be like, oh, well, he clearly is not talking about knitting 101, right? AI doesn't always possess that. AI, like as humans, we we gather information, we sort information very, very well, and we organize information, sometimes to our good and sometimes to our detriment, but that's what we do. AI does the same thing just without a lot of our contextual issues. so I'm I'm gonna back up. I apologize it's taking a bit longer to explain, but I want to quickly explain it. In a very quick okay, in a very quick explanation, this is how I view humans versus AI. So in a human, we have this physical body, right? And this physical body is a funny thing because I can control it. I can clap my hands, I can wave, I can do all these things, right? But on the same hand, there's a lot of times where my body I cannot control. after my my sixth cup of coffee, I'm gonna prove that that there's gonna be things that I cannot control. Sometimes I get put into an environment where I feel fear and my body reacts a certain way. So your body is you, but it's also not you. Like it's almost like it has its own life, but it is you. And then the same thing happens with your brain. I I can help control thoughts, I can ponder things, I can use my brain for math equations, I can use it for reasoning. It is me. I have control over my brain. But as we all know and experience, I also many times don't have control over my brain. Like, brains don't like inconsistency. If if you and I eye witness the same thing that we're not really paying attention to, the reason why we may say the dress or the car is a different color is because the brain doesn't like an inconsistency. The dress has to be there. We know there was a dress, but what we don't know is what color it was. So your brain just fills in a color, right? And your brain actually creates really cool pathways. Like when you like why things like affirmations work so well is because your brain operates on a pathway. People don't realize that they go down this pathway, and when when something starts, and then they have to follow the path to the end, because that's what the brain knows. So when you want to change behavior, you can't just be like, hey, I'm gonna go change the behavior. To figure out how to reconstruct the pathway. So the brain is you, but it's also a part of you. It actually also does its own thing. Well, then we have this third thing in psychology, which if you want to call it your consciousness, if you want to call it your soul or whatever you want to call it, it is something different that makes humans stand apart from everything else. So there's something different, is like the brain wants healthy food because it's logical, and your body wants chocolate. And then you have this third thing that is literally debating between the two, like, hmm, which one am I going to decide to have? Right. It's it's a way of breaking human nature. It's a very unique thing. But but if but think about this for a moment. You you literally have in you what makes you two competing things, and a third thing that's making a decision, but it's all you, but it's three different things. It's it's a really interesting concept. So the reason why I go through this is I teach my daughter this because AI is the brain portion of humanity. It is the reasoning, it is the under thing that understands patterns, it is the thing that that recognizes. So when you're teaching your kid how to utilize AI or you want to utilize in a business, remember, it can tell you all the gases in the sky when a sunset is happening, but AI will never remark and understand the beauty of that sunset. It can tell you the algorithm of the music you're most likely going to want to hear, but it can't understand why music shifts the soul and the feeling so much. So, like music industry and art's gonna be a fascinating thing to watch. AI is gonna take over this vast majority of algorithmic music. Things like the Britney Spears and the InSyncs and all the rest are gonna keep coming up as just algorithm music. But then every once in a while, in our in all algorithms now, you get things like Sale by AWOL Nation. You get things like Someone I Used to Know. you get these like really weird songs that come out of nowhere and it creates a brand new algorithm. AI won't be able to create that new algorithm. Humans will. That's what the gift of humanity is. So that's a long way of answering your question. But when we deal with technology and our kids, we need to understand that AI is this amazing tool that helps us organize thoughts and it helps us expand to become far more productive. Yet I help my daughter truly understand what it means to be human. So that way she shapes AI and AI doesn't shape her. And this is where I talk about the psychology part because I really encourage all your listeners, anybody who's hearing this, is understand the psychology of humanity. And when you understand that, AI becomes this beautiful tool that's not taking over your life. If you don't understand that, unfortunately, it's it will. It's much like you either create the future you want or you endure the future you get. The future is gonna happen, it's just a matter of you're gonna create it or not. So, same thing with AI. Sorry, that's my long runabout wave. No, no, you've you hit it on the nail, Nathan. I I really appreciate you taking some time to come on the show today. Nathan Graham's website is syntheticco.ca, and he's very active on social media, through LinkedIn, Instagram, X. So be sure to follow him, and I'll include the links to get in touch with Nathan and also about both of his books. Nathan Graham, thank you very much for joining us here on the Link Thru Social Podcast today. Thank you so much for having me. This has been fun. I appreciate this. Wonderful. Well, that's syntheticco.ca, Nathan Graham. We really appreciate you being on the show. And the Link Thru Social Podcast will be back right after this short message. SPONSOR MESSAGE - SMART POST APP SPONSOR MESSAGE Tired of stressing over what to post on social media? Meet Smart Post App, your all-in-one solution to create, schedule, and grow your content effortlessly. In just a few taps, you can generate engaging posts, stay consistent, and keep your audience coming back for more. No more guessing, no more burnout, just smarter content faster. Whether you're a business owner, creator, or entrepreneur, Smart Post App offers both premium and pro plans. 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Curated product mailers designed to put brands directly into the hands of relevant creators. The model has helped hundreds of brands run influencer campaigns built to drive awareness, engagement, and business results. Sherry, welcome to the program. Thank you so much for having me here. Well, it's our pleasure. before we get into our interview, why don't you, other than my intro there, give us a little bit more about your background and how you arrived here today. Yeah, I'm happy to do so. So my name is Sherry, and I'm the founder of Babbel Box. And I was in corporate America and I noticed that there was many, many years ago bloggers, kind of this thing called bloggers, and I became fascinated with it and with the whole industry. I in my corporate job started working with bloggers and then decided that this was going to be something big, and I left corporate America to launch an agency focused on the creator economy. So it's babbelbox.com. That's B-A-B-B-L-E-B-O-X.com. And we'll include the links in our descriptions if you're listening or watching us on our YouTube channel. Now, Sherry, you've been influencer marketer for a long time since before it became mainstream. What's the biggest mic misconception? I know what's the biggest misconception brands still have about influencer marketing now here in 2026? The biggest misconception brands have about influencer marketing is that it's gonna move a lot of products and you're gonna just, you know, work with influencers and products are gonna be sold and they're gonna fly off the shelf. I think that it still requires a lot of behind the scenes. It's not as easy as like, oh, I'm gonna ship products to influencers and things are gonna start selling, and I'm gonna sell 10,000 10,000 units in a minute. That's not how it works. Why not? Now, AI is changing almost every part of digital marketing. Where do you believe AI helps creators and brands the most? Well, I don't know if you just saw, but I think I've just issued some AI regulations saying that not only do you have to disclose if you're an AI influencer, but it might almost be like becoming like borderline sketch not allowed. I'm not sure. Something just came out this week and I have to catch up. But I think AI for influencers is in the operational, like in the workflow, right? It could help them analyze, you know, their scripts, analyze and perform, help them write scripts. But I do think that humans, the whole purpose of influencer is that you're human and you're relatable. And I don't think that's ever gonna go away, i.e., being replaced by, you know, fake people. I think that that to me, an AI influencer is an ad. And the same way influencers, I just don't get how this isn't being cracked down on the same way that influencers have to have all these disclosures and reveal that they are influencers and being paid, AI influencers should reveal that they are fake. Right. Yes, no, for sure. Authenticity is key in this in this growth. You have to stay authentic. And you know, if you if you're into digital marketing, you're you're a creator, you have to remain authentic. People are getting turned off. it's it's it's a wave that's that's starting to really grow and and and get really out of control that people are saying, oh no, that's that's AI. I you know sentiments. But the crazy thing that we're seeing, the crazy thing that we're seeing is the opposite of AI with influencers. The crazy thing is analog. People are going back to wanting the physical, wanting the experience, wanting to receive. You look at mail and it's kind of going up. You look at events, they're on the rise. So with everything that's technology, then there's the throwbacks of people wanting, you know, the retro experiences to come back, and we're seeing a lot of that too. Exactly. So at Babbel Box, tell us how how that's been working. And and you know, you're you you're working with a lot of different brands. why don't you share some of the the things that are happening at your company, Babbel Box? So I think the craziest thing is that people think with influencer, it's beauty brands and maybe food brands and all the fun stuff. And what I see is that brands that you would never expect to be working with creators are working with creators. That's one of the biggest things we're seeing. So education and government, all the public service announcements and healthcare, finance, that's been a big thing. A lot of universities, a lot of like safety programs from government health programs, and I don't think people see that. And I think also moving from just the marketing, like I've always said, like, why is only marketing using influencer? And now it's going beyond just the branding people, right? Influencer has gone into trade, it's going into shopper, it's becoming every every aspect of the marketing organization is leveraging influencer. So that's what we're seeing a lot of. Wonderful. Yes, yeah. Now the the creator economy is is evolving quite quickly. if someone wanted to become an influencer or content creator in today, 2026, what advice would you give them that might might surprise them? I don't, I think that I would focus very niche. So you and I are Canadian. I think, you know, I don't this audience listens to, you know, but I think being super geo super niche, like I just discovered a jump influencer. She's not gonna get deals from Disney and all the you know mom campaigns, but she's jumping and she is unbelievable and she's addictive. So, you know, I found another one who does candy art from convenience store paintings. Oh, I mean, that is so super niche, but you know, be big in your niche. My thinking niche is a great is is the one thing I would say to people. Now, is follower count still important, or are there better metric brands should be looking at? I don't believe ever believe follower count is the greatest measure, right? I think that you have to look at your relationship with your community, the saves, the shares, the shares, the interactions, and like the the type of interactions, right? If you're posting about, you know, wear your seatbelt, this is really important, and people say, Hi, beauty, I love your hair. That's not really the right type of engagement. So I think really the engagement, the community, and also to me, what I look at now is all the other touch points because you could have a super tiny community and and and really have an impact and where brands really want sales and stuff like that, you might have more results with a smaller community than if you're very large. I wouldn't just look at the follower and the engagement. I would look at what are the other touch points? You know, do you have a newsletter? Do you have a podcast? Do you have a private channel where you're, you know, speaking to your community? That's kind of where I'm I'm leaning in now. No, for sure. Now, looking ahead, say three to five years, what do you think social media and influencer marketing will look like? I think every single person's gonna be an influencer in their own right, right? Like I think everyone has to get over the fear, turn on their camera. That's not to say that everyone's gonna get paid and that's gonna be their profession, but if you look at LinkedIn, I think you're gonna see professionals and business owners and everyone kind of having to put themselves out there to become their own voice on social. Yeah, no, for sure. Now, what should businesses start preparing for today to stay ahead of the game? I think for businesses it's the same thing, like not just looking at the largest influencers, but looking at influencers with the multiple touch points because those are the people who are gonna move the needle for you. I think differentiating yourself by niching down. And I definitely think you know, thinking of touch points of marketing, I don't think it's just like post and forget influencer marketing extends beyond it from the social content to the social proof to the trade to the experiential, I mean, to product, you could use influencers for market research. Like I don't know why no one's thinking about like or very few are thinking about like, hey, we could use influencers and within 10 minutes you can have a market research study done at a fraction of the cost. So these are some of the things that I think we have to think about. You could turn them on, you could turn them off. They're easily accessible, they're always there. And I think people have to start thinking about influencers in different ways. Oh, absolutely. No. what separates the campaigns that people actually remember from the ones that just simply get a lot of impressions or views or likes? So to me, you know, what people remember is the irreverent, the quirky, the sentimental. merch is having its moment. I think that everyone wants the merch. And when we do our boxes, I don't think, you know, box isn't for everyone. It's a big lift, and doing a custom seating kit is a lot. So it has to have a purpose, not just to like a lot of brands just send out these kits. And I don't think, like I will say, don't just send out a kit to send out a kit. I think thoughtful merch, personalization, something meaningful, and something that ties back to the person and the brand is is really important. Absolutely. Now, once again, Sherry, your website is babbelbox.com, and you can also connect with Sherry Langbert on LinkedIn. in closing, just maybe give us a little synopsis of what we're gonna see when we go to babbelbox.com and any other ways we can our viewers and listeners contact. Yeah, Babbelbox, we do everything influencer, everything creator, or your one-stop shop, but we don't just do regular campaigns. We do, we are known for box activations. So we have co-promotions and custom kits, and they're super fun. And if anyone is interested in this space or has any questions, you could always reach me and it's sherry at babblebox with twoxes.com or on my LinkedIn. Wonderful. So Babbelbox.com, Sherry Langberg, I appreciate you taking the time to join us today. We'd love to have you on the show again in the in the future as things are just moving at a rapid pace in in marketing and emergence of AI. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. 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